Zarthani.net banner

Future History excerpts from "PIPER-L"

Note: contents of this page migrating to the "PIPER-L" Message Archives page.

"Science fiction entertains the type of reader who enjoys speculation on different hypothetical, philosophical, scientific, sociological, military, economic, technological etc. possibilities.  This type of reader is not inferior or superior to others, but he is different."

— H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview

Home | Forum | Links | Emporium | Re-read | Contact

Future History | Paratime | Other works | H. Beam Piper

Bibliography | Gallery | Chronology | Concordance | Development


The original Piper Mailing List, known as "PIPER-L" (from its mailing address: PIPER-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM), began in Octoberr 1995 but came to an abrupt end in September 2008.  Fortunatey, the defunct list was promptly reincarnated.  Unfortunately, along with the end of PIPER-L came the end of its comprehensive on-line archive: every message posted to the list by Piper fans for nearly two decades was removed from the Web.  (Some of the PIPER-L messages had been archived before their removal from the Web by the Internet Archive Wayback Machine—including the somewhat mundane very first message—though it's an awkward resource to search effectively.)
      Nevertheless, some Piper fans had saved some of the messages posted to PIPER-L themselves.  Some of those preserved messages dealing with aspects of the Terro-human Future History are available here.  The messages are organized below by discussion topic and date of original posting.  Some personal information (such as the e-mail addresses of message posters) has been redacted.  (When available, a link is provided to the archived message at the Wayback Machine.)

Future History Discussion Topic

Martians / Extraterrestrials
(22 November, 1997, 2 msgs)

Empire colonization
(3 September, 1997)

Amaterasu contragravity
(3 September, 1997)

Extra-Zarathustran Fuzzies
(14 October, 1997)

First and Second Federations
(28 October, 1997)

Federation Colonial Office
(27 March, 1998)

Discovery of Freya
(20 April, 1998)

Eleventh Sword World
(15 March, 1999)

* Some PIPER-L messages are available online at the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.




Date:         Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:40:07 -0500
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      TFH Martians

Been rereading "Omnilingual."  There's a host of information in
this story about the early (First?) Federation.  I'll summarize
that when I finish reading.  In the meanwhile, here's Martha Dane's
description of the Martians depicted in the murals at the Martian
university:

"Here the murals were of heroic-sized Martians, so human in
appearance as to seem members of her own race. . . ."

It would seem "When in the Course--" isn't the only place where
Beam portrayed some "parallel evolution" (unless, as we've discussed
previously, there is some connection between Terrans, Martians and
Freyans).

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Visit my Science-Fiction Worlds of H. Beam Piper Page
               URL: [-- redacted --]/Piper
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 16:02:08 -0400
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Extraterrestrials

E Gray [-- redacted --] writes:

> ---David Johnson [-- redacted --] wrote:
>
> > Fuzzies are the ninth sapient race encountered by Terrans. (p. 60).
> > Other sapient races mentioned are Lokians (pp. 16 & 44), Sheshans
> > (pp. 16 & 44), Thorans (pp. 16 & 44), Yggdrasil Khoogras (pp. 46
> > & 58).
>
> On this note, has anyone taken the time to name all the races
> ever mentioned(maybe using the number in Minister of Discord(?) as
> the base)?  Besides this I can think of the Ullers, but that's about
> it..

We've discussed this some before, of course. :)  Besides the Ullerans
there's also the Freyans.  In "Fuzzy Sapiens" (which I'm just about
finished "gleaning") Beam mentions ETs on Gimli and Hathor as well,
which would round out the eight pre-Fuzzy ET species.

I don't recall what the number mentioned in "Ministry of Disturbance"
is but we also have the Svants from "Naudsonce" (which also occurs
sometime in the Seventh Century, AE, making the Svants good candidates
for the tenth ET race) and the Kwannons (or is it Kwanns?) from
"Oomphel in the Sky."

What always puzzles me is that there is no mention of ETs in *Space
Viking*.

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?"
                                     -Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper)
                                     *Fuzzy Sapiens*
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:24:04 -0400
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Empire colonization

David Empey [-- redacted --] writes:

> Hi, you all.  I haven't seen any traffic in the few days I've
> been subscribed to the list, so I guess I'll create some traffic
> of my own.

Welcome, David.  (BTW, that's "y'all.") :)

> I've also been perusing the list archives, and I've got a few
> comments on some stuff that is rather old; apologies if these
> points have been covered already.
>
> Mark Olson was estimating the number of planets in the Federation by
> counting the number of gods in the mythology of various cultures.  We
> have a fairly precise statement near the end of _CC_, in Chapter XXI:
>
> "Forty years of history for almost five hundred planets had to be
> abstracted and summarized" for Merlin so it could make its
> predictions.  This jibes with Mr. Olson's estimate of 300-1000.
>
> To carry this line of inquiry a bit further:
> In "Ministry of Disturbance", we read that there are 1365 inhabited
> worlds in the Empire, and had been "when Stevan IV. . . had proclaimed
> Odin the Imperial planet. . . ."
>
> Carr dates Steven IV to 1848, so it appears that between 894 and 1848
> the number of inhabitated worlds increased by about 870 or so, or
> about 174%.  It seems a surprising amount of exploration and colonization
> went on between the fall of the Federation and the rise of the Empire.

That's an interesting point.  Indeed, a lot of new worlds must have been
settled.  I wonder if there were other pockets of civilization that had
survived like the Sword Worlds that had colonized new worlds and yet
were eventually incorporated into the Empire.  Either that or a lot of
new exploration went on after the ~500 worlds of the Federation were
recovered by the Empire.

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We talk glibly about ten to the hundredth power, but emotionally we still
count, 'One, Two, Three, Many.'"     -Capt. Otto Harkaman (H. Beam Piper)
                                     *Space Viking*
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:34:20 -0400
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Amaterasu contragravity

David Empey [-- redacted --] writes:

> At 02:05 PM 8/29/97 -0400, Jon Walker wrote:
>
> Re my question about Amaterasu tech levels:
>
> >Piper's contention seems to be that "power cartridges" are required to run
> >must of the
> >hi-tech gizmo'z since they apparently all run on electricity. These power
> >cartridges are
> >collapsium plated fissionable material that some how provides a "direct
> >conversion" to
> >electricity (CC). So, without fissionables, there are no power cartridges
> >and thus no >contragravity... and since you don't want to engage a
> >hyperdrive in a gravity well (SV)
> >you need contragravity to get out there cheaply. Piper seems, unlike many
> >sci-fi writers to
> >definitely keep in mind the laws of economics.
>
> You're missing my point--unless perhaps I'm missing yours.  My claim is
> that Amaterasu should be able to build their own contragravity vehicles
> powered by petroleum distillates.  They don't seem to have suffered any
> catastrophic war, so they should still have Federation-era technical
> information.  With that information, it should be possible to build a
> gasoline powered contragravity vehicle.

As I've stated before, my preference is to try to figure out how Beam's
ideas *could* work before we go off trying to correct some "mistake."
In this case, I believe Jon's on the right track.  There must be something
about nuclear power that is essential to the process of manufacturing
contragravity vehicles.  Even if a non-nuclear source of energy
might be used to power a contragravity vehicle it may still be the
case that nuclear power is essential to the refining or processing of
the gadolinium needed for contragravity, i.e. the gadolinium must be
"processed" in a nuclear reactor, something like the way uranium is
converted to plutonium. . . .

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You either went on to the inevitable catastrophe, or you realized, in
time, that nuclear armament and nationalism cannot exist together on the
same planet, and it is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of
knowledge."                          -H. Beam Piper, *Uller Uprising*
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:29:23 -0400
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Other...Race

Jimmy [-- redacted --] writes:

> At 08:55 AM 10/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Well, I'm just reading *Fuzzies and Other People* for the first time
> >but it seemed pretty clear from the first two Fuzzy novels that the
> >Fuzzies had evolved on Zarathustra.  Federation scientists were pretty
> >much set on the hypothesis that the reason for the low Fuzzy birthrate
> >was due to a lack of the titanium compound (hokfusine) that counteracted
> >the hormone NFMp found in the Fuzzies.  (Hokfusine was found in
> >land-prawns and "extee three.")  The scientists had also hypothesized
> >that the hormone had originally served to combat an environmental toxin
> >that no longer appeared in the Zarathustra ecosphere.  Thus, what had
> >originally been a useful mutation (NFMp) had become a harmful one (which
> >hindered fetal development) when the environmental toxin disappeared.
>
> As you say, the scientists hypothesized this, but was it a mutation that
> appeared on Zarathustra or was it because of something on their "Home"
> planet.  Also as I pointed out in the first book, he makes a couple of
> references to them not being related to anything on Zarathustra.

I agree it's possible Beam had an extra-Zarathustran origin in mind
for the Fuzzies.  (Indeed, it's what I suspected when I first read
*Fuzzy Sapiens* and learned about the NFMp/hokfusine connection.)  We
might be able to dismiss Holloway's comment about the "uniqueness"
of the Fuzzies as the opinion of an uninformed layperson but as you
pointed out, Van Riebeek, a naturalist, made a similar observation.

> I am not saying either way, and it does seem that Piper decided to ignore
> this in the later books (just as he seems to have done the Martian origins
> in the later Paratime stories)

Again, agreed.  Another factor that supports the "EZ" hypothesis is
the fact that none of the native species on Zarathustra can hear the
Fuzzies when they speak, just as Terrans can't.  (In *Fuzzies and Other
People*, Wise One notes that "Animals could not hear their voices--
that was an always-so thing which they could trust. . . .)

I'm still reading *FaOP* but I assume from some of the other comments
here on the List that it is never established (or even considered?)
that the Fuzzies have an extra-Zarathustran origin.  Is that so?

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?"
                                     -Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper)
                                     *Fuzzy Sapiens*
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:54:33 -0500
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: First and Second Federations
Content-Type: text

Alvis [-- redacted --] writes:

> So when would you place the dates of existence for the first and second
> Federations?

That's a tough call.  See the discussion entitled "Atomic Wars" in
the June 1997 archives.

My take on it is that the "First" Federation was formed after the
Thirty Days War and that the "Second" Federation was formed after
colonies on Venus (and perhaps Mars) gained their independence
following a "war of independence."  Furthermore, my take is that
these two wars are the "Third and Fourth World Wars" referred to
in *Four-Day Planet*.

Carr suggests 174 AE (2116 AD) for the secession of Venus and 183 AE
(2125 AD) for the formation of the "Second" Federation on the *Empire*
Chronology which works for me, given Chalmers mention of the "unified
world" with Martian and Lunar colonies in 2050-2070 AD.  I've not
seen any better dates (or details even) in what I've read of Beam's.

But, as Nathan says, it's all up for discussion! :)

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And you know what English is?  The result of the efforts of Norman
men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon barmaids in the Ninth Century
Pre-Atomic. . . ."                   -Victor Grego (H. Beam Piper)
                                     *Fuzzy Sapiens*
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:06:47 -0500
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Partial "Oomphel in the Sky" gleanings

Jon [-- redacted --] writes:

> there are several planets settled by humans and plenty of reason to believe
> that Earth has less then direct interest in the colonies since they seem to
> tend towards private exploration than governments trying to start colonies
> for it's citizens.

Actually, "Naudsonce," which takes place at roughly the same time that
the Chartered Zarathustra Company is losing its charter, describes a
joint Space Navy-Colonial Office mission looking for likely candidates
for Terran colonization.  I believe we have to conclude that commerical
exploitation (the chartered companies) and government colonization are
both going on in the Federation.  (We have other hints in places like
Poictesme and Kwannon which are settled by Terrans but which don't have
chartered companies.)

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There have been great changes, and none of us can guess what greater
changes will come.  Why talk now of things that may happen in a world the
very shape of which we cannot guess?"
                                     -H. Beam Piper, "When in the Course-"
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:47:27 -0400
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Subject:      Re: Discovery of Freya

Dave [-- redacted --] writes:

> I think I may have placed "WitC--" too late, however.  Marduk was
> probably discovered after Freya was, because Marduk is Babylonian,
> iirc (and certainly not Norse, in any case), and planets were
> supposed to be named after Norse gods until they ran out.
> And in *SV*, p. 155, we read that Marduk had first been colonized
> in the fourth century, i.e. 300-399.  So Freya was probably discovered
> before then--well before then, since Freya is a fairly well-known
> Norse goddess and the name would probably have been used fairly
> soon.  Moving "WitC--" to, say, 300 AE also straightens out the
> speed vs. time curve a bit.

Yes, I've placed "WitC" sometime in the Third Century, AE.  (You're
right about Marduk not being Babylonian.)  "WitC" tells us that Thor,
Loki and Yggdrasil (all Norse) have already been discovered.  In several
places in the TFH we learn that interstellar exploration begins some
time in the Second Century, AE, after the Atomic Wars (World War IV)
and the unification of Terra.  Of course, if Fenris was settled at
the end of the Fourth Century (and what about Uller?) then there's a
period of a couple of centuries, at least, before the Norse names
ran out. . . .

David Johnson                        Net: [-- redacted --]
Arlington, Virginia, North America   Web: [-- redacted --]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Visit my Science-Fiction Worlds of H. Beam Piper Page
               URL: [-- redacted --]
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top




Date:         Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:59:11 -0500
Sender:       "The Works of H. Beam Piper" 
From:         David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Organization: WebPages4U ([-- redacted --])
Subject:      The Eleventh Sword World

Beam identifies this in "A Slave is a Slave" as Quernbiter (*Empire*,
p. 68).

Quernbiter was the sword of Hakon I, "the Good," bastard son of Harald
Harfager, who succeded him as King of Norway in the Tenth Century, AD.
Quernbiter was given to Hakon by his foster-father, King Athelstan of
England.  The citation is from the *Heimskringla* or "Chronicle of the
Kings of Norway."

This leaves us with only one unmentioned Sword World.  Earlier I'd
suggested Sauvagine, Ogier the Dane's other sword (besides Curtana)
which was made by Munifican (who also made Curtana and Durendal), and
Balmung, Siegfried's other sword (besides Gram) which was made by
Weiland (who also made Flamberge) as the unmentioned Sword Worlds.
Since one of these is obviously wrong and since Quernbiter isn't tied
to any of the other identified Sword Worlds perhaps *both* of them
are poor candidates.

Another possibility might be Lancelot's sword Arondight.

Of course, this throws a monkey wrench into my proposed Sword
World settlement patterns.  The new one might look something
like this:

************************************************************
                        Excalibur
   +------------------------+---------------------+
Joyeuse          ?       Durendal       ?      Flamberge
   |             |          |           |         |
Haulteclere   Morglay   Quernbiter?   Colada   Arondight?
   |                        |           |
  Gram                   Curtana      Tizona
************************************************************

David Johnson [-- redacted --]
Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, North America
---------------------------------------------------------------
Visit my tribute to the science fiction worlds of H. Beam Piper
Web URL: [-- redacted --]
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to top



Home | Forum | Links | Emporium | Re-read | Contact

Future History | Paratime | Other works | H. Beam Piper

Bibliography | Gallery | Chronology | Concordance | Development



Please support Piper content at Zarthani.net


©1999 - 2017 by Zarthani.net.  The contents of this Web site are for personal, non-commercial use only.  Any use of copyrighted material or trademarks anywhere on this site and its files should not be viewed as a challenge to those copyrights or trademarks.  In addition, any material displayed on or served by this site cannot be republished or distributed without explicit consent from Zarthani.net.